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29179 Posts in 4098 Topics by 4685 Members - Latest Member: crashjust4kix October 30, 2014, 07:24:07 AM
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Victory Motorcycle Solutions  |  Profile of King Vic  |  Show Posts  |  Messages
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Messages - King Vic

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 21
1
Victory Garage / Re: Driving without the stage one dealer download
« on: March 17, 2009, 02:11:15 PM »
Correction.  I rest my case!!

PS What a beast you'd have if it your Vic had a custom map and dyno tune.

2
Victory Garage / Re: Driving without the stage one dealer download
« on: March 17, 2009, 02:06:11 PM »
"I dont resort to name calling...you just dont know how to read." Now I'm illiterate. 

"Why loose the benefits of fuel injection and modern computer tuned technology"...I said that it was a dumb comment...and I am right.  You implied that running a VFC meant you give up fuel injection.  Where does that statement imply that you give up fuel injection?  Please read until you understand it says you loose the BENEFITS of fuel injection and modern computer tuned technology. 

Did you bother to call Lloyd for advice?  I did get Lloydz' advise and he was kind enough to replace the VFC two (2) times. 

The biggest issue with the PCIII is PRICE not costs.  The costs is the lack of precision and lack of complete blissful riding.

Look at your own graph... I do my riding between 1500 and 3500 RPMs.  If my bike were tuned like yours I'd be changing plugs once a week.  The optimum A/F ratio for the Vic is 13.2 / 1.  On the large graph it is showing that you are running extremely rich from 2000 to 4000 rpm, nearly reaching 10 / 1 around 2600 rpm.  Look at your torque curve in that same rpm range... it is struggling.  I had the same issue with my Vic in that range but mine was stock and because of the rich condition in that rpm range it was flat just as your graph shows but after 4000 it was a rocket.  Who rides like that all the time?  You can not take fuel out with the VFC; it only adds and when you have rich condition somewhere in the power band the VFC only exacerbates it.  In contrast look at bird dyno.  Look at the torque curve and its steady climbing arc.  Thats a good tune.  Look at the flat A/F ratio across the rev band.  You can't get that sheet with a VFC.  (Please note:  Optimal does not mean most horse power or torque.  Vics run develop more HPs in the high revs when tuned slightly lean.... for you racers out there)

You say I can't read?  "And noone can create a custom map for $70 in one hour."  I wrote "A dyno run might cost you about $70.00.

Please read RUN as in a base line.  A complete dyno tune will need an outlay of $200 to $400 or more depending on dyno time and how screwed the A/F ration is.

As to Lloydz reasons for using VFCs in can't speak to, however, he is a business man with a vested interest in using his own product but he knows its limitations.

I reset my case!







3
Victory Garage / Re: Driving without the stage one dealer download
« on: March 16, 2009, 01:25:39 PM »
The Stage 1 setup is optimal for your air intake and exhaust combo.  The dealer should reset the TPS and run some diagnostics if there is too much soot (running rich).  The odds of your being able to tune the motor with the VFC as well as the Factory designed download are about Zero.  Why loose the benefits of fuel injection and modern computer tuned technology.  Would you trade your computer and internet connection for 1980 IBM Selectric typewriter and fax?  Fuel Controls like the VFC are really just a stop gap for non-factory intake and exhaust combos until you want to get it done right, i.e. custom map to optimize air fuel ratios.  Seat of the pants tuning went out with carbs.
I dont know where you get your information from but you are dead wrong.  The downloads from Victory and S&S are not optimzed, they err on the side of caution and are designed on the rich side.  The only thing they are good for is burning excessive amounts of fuel.  The S&S download is even worse than the Stage 1.

You do not loose the benefits of fuel injection by running a VFC...that comment is just plain dumb.  You still use a stock map but you GAIN the ability to dial it in.  Can you do that without a VFC...NO.  Can you dial in the ridability without a VFC...NO.

You don't need to be the best tuner in the world to tune it better than the factory.  You just need time and patience.  If you run a VFC you can call Lloyd or Adam and get advice on tuning directly from them.  I ran mine with the stage 1 download and it was ok.  But it had a hole at low RPM's...a dead spot.  I went back to stock download, VFC and tuned it myself, it ran better than the download, I was happy with it.   I let Half_Crazy play with it for about 30 minutes and it ran even better.  Then I went with the S&S airbox, stock 05 Hammer map and got the tune close.  Half_Crazy played with it and it ran its ass off...and I consistently got over 45 mpg...which is better than stock or stage 1.  And the low RPM hole and dead spot were gone.  When you have the ability to tune for drivability why wouldn't you take advantage of it.  My bike ran like a scaled dog in every gear at any RPM.

I got Lloyd to put the 104 kit in and tune it.  It runs strong as shit but the drivability is not there.  There is a hole at low RMP's, the same hole that was there when it was stage 1.  I will be changing the map back to the stock 05 Hammer map and will tune it with the VFC.

As far as the PC3 goes it is way too expensive to buy and pay for someone to tune it.  You will spend at least 4 hours on a dyno to get someone to tune for drivability...and even then it will only be close, it wont be perfect.  Then what do you do...go back to the dyno and shell out even more money...no thanks.

Those you resort to name calling "comment is just plain dumb" to support a position loose credibility.  Maybe "Optimized" was too strong a statement, however, it is designed for that intake / exhaust combo. What you say about the PCIII as far as upfront price is true, however, if tuned properly, will be tuned "Perfectly".  Of course this depends on what you are tuning for, two-up cruising, racing, torque down low or high in the rev band, etc.  The PCIII having more than 200 tuning points throughout the rev band give you the flexibility to customize the Fuel / Air ratio tune precisely for the type riding you do and can target tuning to the rear cylinder to keep the heat down.  That can't be done with VFC style fuel controls. 

I've been on many rides when those of us with a VFC, myself included, had to make some minor adjustment to aid in the ride-ability which never really seemed to be satisfactory.  I think that is supported by the number of posts asking "How do I tune the VFC?" here and other Vic forums.  I didn't buy my KP to exercise patients and constantly fiddle with the tune.  I bought to to ride and enjoy.

I tried to tune the VFC, my dealer tried to tune the VFC and the dyno tuning center tried to tune the VFC and none of us were able to get a satisfactory tune.  That's when I switched to the PCIII with custom map and never had a ride-ability issue again.  The dyno supports my position what does your dyno sheet show?  If you don't have a dyno sheet then I highly recommend you get one just to see where your A/F ratio is at different points in the rev band and where you may be harming you motor.  Without it you're just guessing.  A dyno run might cost you about $70.00.  Show me a dyno tune with a VFC and I'll show you a PCIII custom map that will improve upon it.

Anybody tuning for peek performance will use a computer to tune PRECISELY. Are there any Pro Motor Sports teams not using a computer to tune there fuel injection systems?

The only reason you'd have to get a new dyno tune is if you do something to change the A/F ratio like changing exhaust or intake.  I admit, it is not cheap to have someone dyno tune but the peace of mind and the shear joy of the performance over the long term more than makes up for the price difference which is probably made up in fuel saving alone.

My dad always said, "How many times do you want to do something before you do it right?"  I wish I'd payed attention to him before I went with the VFC.





4
Victory Garage / Re: Driving without the stage one dealer download
« on: March 14, 2009, 04:15:44 PM »
The Stage 1 setup is optimal for your air intake and exhaust combo.  The dealer should reset the TPS and run some diagnostics if there is too much soot (running rich).  The odds of your being able to tune the motor with the VFC as well as the Factory designed download are about Zero.  Why loose the benefits of fuel injection and modern computer tuned technology.  Would you trade your computer and internet connection for 1980 IBM Selectric typewriter and fax?  Fuel Controls like the VFC are really just a stop gap for non-factory intake and exhaust combos until you want to get it done right, i.e. custom map to optimize air fuel ratios.  Seat of the pants tuning went out with carbs.

Let me respectfully point out that my seat-of-the-pants tuning on VFC II ran stronger, more seamlessly, and got better mileage than Victory's factory stage 1 set-up OR the S&S dowload with S&S airbox. It depends on WHO'S pants...

If the dealer has no dyno, he hasn't a prayer of getting the bike any better tuned than someone with talent can do at home. You must be able to test under load.

HC, so you're the One..  Seat of the pants tuning is not a common talent for most enthusiasts and a novice most likely will screw things up and end up highly frustrated.  HC you are clearly not common.

5
Victory Garage / Re: Driving without the stage one dealer download
« on: March 14, 2009, 10:42:07 AM »
The Stage 1 setup is optimal for your air intake and exhaust combo.  The dealer should reset the TPS and run some diagnostics if there is too much soot (running rich).  The odds of your being able to tune the motor with the VFC as well as the Factory designed download are about Zero.  Why loose the benefits of fuel injection and modern computer tuned technology.  Would you trade your computer and internet connection for 1980 IBM Selectric typewriter and fax?  Fuel Controls like the VFC are really just a stop gap for non-factory intake and exhaust combos until you want to get it done right, i.e. custom map to optimize air fuel ratios.  Seat of the pants tuning went out with carbs.

6
Victory Garage / Re: Driving without the stage one dealer download
« on: March 12, 2009, 06:27:00 PM »
I currently have victory performance pipes and a K&N w/ the vented air box installed. I'm going to install the VFC but Lloyd tells me I need to ditch the stage one download from the dealer and get it set back to stock. Well It's cold here in Wisconsin and I don't feel like trailering the bike. So when a warm day comes i'm going to ride her in the cold!!! My question is this. Is it safe for the bike to ride it approx. 23 miles with the accessories still on without the stage one mapping? I'd love to hear some feedback because my dealer is a idiot and doesn't have a straight answer for me.

Thanks in advance!!

Todd

Why?? Why do you want to change to the VFC?

7
Victory Garage / Re: OD Pulley Causing Belt to rub
« on: March 11, 2009, 06:23:10 AM »
I had the OD pulley on for 2-years.  No change in fuel mileage but lots more highway riding comfort.

8
Victory Garage / Re: OD Pulley Causing Belt to rub
« on: March 07, 2009, 11:07:12 AM »
Jim,

This is a common occurrence and the only solution is to grind away.  I had the dealership install mine and they had to do the same!!

9
The pin doesn't have the 106 c.i.

Just as a note of curiosity, have you seen the new Honda chopper? 

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/2010-honda-fury-review-88030.html

10
Victory Biker Bar / Re: S&S Air Intake
« on: February 27, 2009, 03:52:40 PM »
I had a lean condition because I was not running a high flow exhaust system that was not designed for the download.  I think if you have the pipe combo designed for the download by S&S then you're probably alright.  Anything else and you've got to add a fuel controller.

11
KingVic, I have rode both the JP&Hammer and both are a lot of work to ride unless you're going straight!
 I couldn't relax on them but to each their own........good luck!

I rode the JP and I agree; that's why I'd want to swap out the Hammer backend for a Vegas swing arm, rear wheel and fender.  That would give me the best of all Vic worlds.

12
King Vic
Were did you get the shot gun pipes on this bike, I done not seem to be able to find on any site, these seem to be sitting a little lower than the pipes Polaris has on there site, them allow plenty of room for cleaning rear of bike,
Regards
Eurp

They are Santa Rosa Vee Twin pipes (SRVT) Jacks Shot guns.  I picked them up for $400 2-years ago August.  I believe they were discontinuing them at the time.  I simply gave them a call and asked what was the best deal they could do for me.  He said $400 and I said deal.  I loved the Quality Chrome, look and sound.  I don't know why they are not available anymore.  Maybe you can call SRVT or Ronnie at Hacker might knock some out.

13
KingVic, man I'm sorry about your luck, I could feel your pain when you said "that empty hole in your Heart"....I don't know what I would do if I lost my KP....I've had two bikes since I started riding and none of the other bikes had such a place in my heart as the Pin!
 I've told other people if and when my Pin is no more that I'm done riding cause there's no other bike that I care to be on! It's got my heart and soul!

Nozzleman216, you're a lucky man and you will find out pretty quick what you have bought, I'll say no more because you will see! Congratulation, and ride safely!

Bird,

Thanks for the comments.  I'm already plotting my new Vic.  I'm planning on a new Hammer but I'm not wild about the fat tire and seat configuration.  But I do like the 106 cu in and the dual front break.  I believe all the Vic frames are identical so when I get it I think I'll trade the Hammer swing arm, tire and fender for the Vegas counter parts with somebody.  Then I'll just dress it up like the KP with the chrome floor boards, windshield and touring seat.  I'll probably go with after market bags though.  I'm going nuts without my ride and its getting warm out. I'll be taking lots of test rides this spring!

I'll still be checking out the KEG site to keep current and toss my 2 cents in when I can help.

14
Victory Biker Bar / Re: S&S Air Intake
« on: February 27, 2009, 07:56:21 AM »
I see you made the same mistake as I.  The S&S accepts all the stock fittings no alterations necessary.  I didn't revert back to stock when I went to the S&S.  Everything worked great.  I recommend you get the S&S download installed.

15
Nozzleman216

Take it easy on the old man and don't let him take her for a ride, he may not give her back.

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